No Time For Trading | Podcast Episode #433

0:07
Hey, I’m Ryan Mallory and this is my swing Trading the Stock Market podcast. I’m here to teach you how to trade in a complex, ever changing world of finance.

0:16
Learn what it means to trade profitably and consistently, managing risk, avoiding the pitfalls of trading, and most importantly, to let those winners run wild.

0:25
You can succeed at the stock market and I’m ready to show you how. Hey everybody, this is Ryan Mallory with shareplanner.com’s Swing Trading the Stock Market.

0:34
In today’s podcast episode, we are going to talk about No Time for trading. I have a listener here that has a job change, not so much a career change, but he’s changing jobs.

0:46
He’s taking on a different shift. The shift is moving from the daytime to the night time.

0:51
He’s hoping that I can shed some light on how to make that work. So for the purposes of concealing his name and not telling you guys what his real identity is, we’re going to use the name Jeb. And Jeb is a recommendation from him. So we’re going to call the guy Jeb.

1:06
Jeb writes. Ryan, thanks for your podcast. As mentioned in your show, one’s trading approach must fit their lifestyle. I have come into a problem as a result of my work. I travel and healthcare and for the first time I will not be able to get alerts on price action from my mobile device because I will be sleeping during market hours time as I will be working the midnight shift.

1:27
I thought about possibly just sticking to various sector ETS and equal weighted ETS to reduce my exposure to volatility, news and earnings while backing off on single companies. I think I am going to primarily look at daily price action or market close weekly in the four hour. The great Jesse Livermore, who’s also one of my favorites, always stated that it’s important to be able to handle your trades in such a way as to where you don’t lose sleep. It just so happens that I will be sleeping during the market hours.

1:54
It’s actually pretty funny. As a result of the bear market in 2022, I now consistently use stop losses. Right now I only go long and do not feel it is appropriate to be going short based on my experience with the market, its cycles, and the fact that I will be sleeping during market hours.

2:10
Do you have any additional thoughts or insights on my strategy or additional input? On another note, how do you recommend playing gaps considering I’ll be working midnights?

2:19
Another question, could this be a blessing preventing over trading and help block out the noise of the media in real time from my Florida redneck name? Just go ahead and call me Jeb after your former Florida governor, Jeb Bush. Thanks, Jeb.

2:34
OK, Jeb, lots of good questions. There are lots to work with too. I appreciate you telling me the back story. I always like hearing your stories. And if you want your question to be on this podcast episode, feel free to send me a email ryan@shareplanner.com. I’m the only one that reads them and we’ll keep it private. Just between you and me, change your name out so that it can be made as part of this show.

2:54
So Jeb has a problem here. He has no time for trading to or to at least watch the market. But there’s ways around that. I don’t think it’s the easiest scenario where you’re sleeping during the day and you’re working at night.

3:04
Has traders done it before? Yes, they sure have. It definitely makes it harder, but it doesn’t make it impossible. And regardless if you’re working the night shift, the day shift or, or something far different, it’s always important to have your trading align with your lifestyle.

3:19
Just like you said that I mentioned in a previous episode. Actually, I probably mentioned it in a bazillion episodes, but that’s one of the things that I always try to hammer home because it’s easy to take on somebody else’s strategy or their approach. But if it doesn’t fit to our lifestyle or to our liking, it’s very difficult to be successful at it.

3:43
And in this case, he’s probably going to have to do more signal-based trading. Whereas for me, I can look at a stock market all day long, look at charts all day long. And then when I come across a chart that I like and it aligns with my trading strategy, I can go ahead and pull the trigger on that trade.

3:58
For Jeb here, he can’t do that because he’s going to be sleeping during trading hours. Now, I don’t know exactly what his schedule is. So for instance, he says he’s working the midnight shift. I’m guessing maybe that’s like a 10:00 PM to 10:00 AM shift or maybe it’s a 12:00 AM to 12:00 PM shift. I don’t know what that exactly, but let’s say it’s a 12:00 to 12:00, right.

4:23
And let’s say even worse, he’s on the West Coast. He lives in California. That means the market’s closing at 1:00 PM. But he also said that he’ll be sleeping during market hours, which makes me think it’s maybe, you know, central or Eastern Time that would make it to where he’s sleeping during market hours. When he gets home, he’s probably exhausted.

4:39
However, one of the things that you could do, and I’m grappling with this because here’s the thing, Jeb here could have a wife. She might be working a job too. Let’s say she’s a school teacher, for instance, and she gets home around 4:00 PM during the day.

4:54
Well, being able to sleep while she’s at work probably makes sense for him, right? Because the last thing you really want is to be up while she’s at work and then you’re going to sleep when she comes home because then you really don’t get to see each other at all because you’re working when she’s sleeping, she comes home and you’re sleeping while she’s at home.

5:15
You just don’t ever get to see each other. So that’s something, you know, based on whether or not he’s even married, I don’t know, but that’s something that you have to think about. You have to think about how it plays into the whole lifestyle picture.

5:26
If my wife never got to see me, she wouldn’t like that and I wouldn’t like it either. So that can create stress if that’s something you try to do anyways, create stress on the marriage, which creates stress on your trading. And we don’t want that.

5:39
OK, digging a little bit more into this, he asks, do you have any additional thoughts or insights on my strategy or additional input? So the reason why I was bringing up the whole time that you come home from work and when you’re sleeping time with the family and so forth is because if there is an opportunity, let’s say you’re getting home as the market’s opening up, maybe just a little bit of time there in the first 30 minutes of trading or so forth.

6:03
Just being able to put your orders in, managing the situation, putting in your stops could pay huge dividends. Or if you’re getting up, you know, at 3:30 in the afternoon, maybe there’s an opportunity for you to be able to base your trading off of what you’re seeing into the close and so forth.

6:22
But you got to build that out for yourself. You got to really strategize. I don’t have a strategy right off hand for that because I’ve never had to trade in that kind of a format before. But the end of day can give you a great opportunity to be able to see what the stock actually did, not get shaken out of trades because you weren’t watching the trades, and to be able to see how the market digested all the news from that day.

6:42
Now you can put your orders in and make them conditional. I know and I don’t use this function very much, but Thinkorswim has conditional orders that are available.

6:54
You can literally put in there that you want to submit this order after a specific time. And I would be willing to guess that most of your popular brokerages that have a software-based platform have those features as well.

7:03
So for me, I don’t like to trade after the first 30 minutes of trading. I can go ahead and put my orders in if I’m in the situation that Jeb is in and say, hey, I want my orders to be submitted after the first 30 minutes of the day.

7:17
Or I always talk about, I don’t like using stop losses that are good till cancel because I don’t want to get stopped out in that first millisecond of trading where there’s no actual trade, but you get stopped out anyways because the bid and ask flash below your stop loss and it triggered a market order on your portfolio.

7:32
That’s the kind of stuff that I like to avoid. So another thing that he can do is he can submit whatever time he’s awake during the day and has access to his phone or into a desktop computer. He can go ahead and submit those conditional orders for the next day.

7:45
Now, if you’re going to stick with the good till cancel orders, like for stop losses, for instance, yes, that whole scenario about erroneously getting stopped out could play out. I’ve seen it happen to myself many times and that’s why I don’t do them.

7:54
Now, how often does that happen nowadays? I’m not sure because I haven’t really experimented to see if that’s something that still happens or not, but I’m not willing to experiment with it.

8:08
If you’ve had that problem, let me know. I would love to hear from you guys if you guys have had that problem where you’re getting erroneously stopped out without even there being a trade below your stop loss. It just happened to be that the bid and ask flash below it and you got stopped out.

8:21
Now, one thing that Jeb could do here and it’s kind of a slight nuance, but you can go more to a position trader. For instance, you can play longer term market rotations instead of doing more of the swing trading where you’re breaking out and playing off of bounces.

8:35
You’re looking for more major rotations in the market, whether it be rotation into big tech or rotation into the small caps or some other thing that you’re trying to run with.

8:45
And I know a lot of people enjoy swing trading. I swing trade. That’s what I build my life off of is swing trading.

8:54
But there’s also investing too. During this time, maybe you’re not going to be working forever at midnight and at some point you plan to work more normal hours.

9:04
So perhaps there’s an opportunity there for while you’re working at night to try to polish up on the long-term investing and maybe start to become more knowledgeable and skilled in dividend investing as well and just try to branch out in other ways.

9:14
Now, there is one thing that I think is pretty interesting and that’s the fact that the stock market is the New York Stock Exchange is considering going to 24/7 trading.

9:21
Now, I think the idea is absolutely horrible. But in the case of Jeb here, that could play right into his hands. That could be hugely beneficial because the time that he is up, he could still have access to the markets and be able to put orders in as necessary.

9:38
For me personally, man, I hope they don’t ever do that because I just think that there’s a lot of bad results that will come from it. I mean, you always hear about how bad the life of a person on Wall Street is.

9:53
Yes, they get paid a lot of money, but they’re already practically working 24/7. The stresses are already hard and the demands are already hard.

10:01
You create a market that’s open 24/7, it’s just going to expand on that. Also, it adds to the stresses of everybody’s life.

10:09
One of the things that I like is the fact that I get a break on the weekends that the market is not open, that I can’t open up my phone and check to see what’s going on.

10:18
Now I get that cryptocurrencies are open 24/7. And I think that’s why the NYSE is actually thinking about that.

10:23
They’re seeing the success from cryptocurrencies and probably the tons of commissions that they bring in in addition to what they might get during regular trading hours.

10:31
They think to themselves, well, let’s do it 24/7.

10:34
You already have futures open 24/5. So if you’re looking for hedging, you can always use the futures as a hedge if necessary.

10:39
But for a swing trader, that’s really not all that necessary. But the shift towards 24/7 really seems to be picking up steam.

10:46
It’s far from a foregone conclusion, but the NYSE is reaching out to parties to gauge their interest in this.

10:54
Now again, this is going to be a lot more cost for companies like Thinkorswim because they’re going to have a bigger staff for customer support and other problems that might happen as a result of 24/7.

11:04
Same thing with Schwab or E*Trade or whatever platform that you trade on. They’re going to have to increase their staffing.

11:11
And like I said, the impact that it’s going to have on people who are in this work environment is not going to be good.

11:19
It’s not going to allow people to have a balance between work and life.

11:23
And if they do this, then I have to start reconsidering how I approach my risk management, how I approach using the stop losses and so forth.

11:31
Because one, is the liquidity going to be bad at night to where you could easily get stopped out on some erroneous move lower?

11:37
What’s the volume going to be like when it’s trading 24/7? Is the heavy volume that you see during the day going to be spread out more throughout the rest of the day when the market would normally be closed?

11:45
I think that’s a huge question to ask right now.

11:51
And so does it really just jack up liquidity to where you may not be trading a lot of the same stocks as you used to trade?

11:57
So I do think that there’s a lot of drawback. I think the only benefit to 24/7 trading is one, you’re not going to have crazy gap downs.

12:04
But honestly, or gap higher, but I’m kind of used to those. I mean, it kind of comes with the territory.

12:10
So it’s not really something that I get all worked up about. But this takes me into Jeb’s next question.

12:16
On another note, how do you recommend playing gaps considering that he’ll be working midnight? Again, I think that’s something that I would have to use conditional orders on and namely how I submit those conditional orders.

12:26
I would probably be using stop limits.

12:29
So if I wanted to get into a stock trade, for instance, and I’m working during this time. But if the stock crosses, let’s say it’s Apple, and again, I know Apple doesn’t trade at 100, but I always use 100 just to make it easy.

12:39
If the stock is trading at 100 and I want to get long at 105 and it goes up to 105 and triggers that order.

12:49
If you have a stop order in, that works great.

12:52
But in Jeb’s scenario here, let’s say for whatever reason the stock gaps up to 112, but you want to get in at 105, but you definitely don’t want to get in at 112.

13:03
So maybe you use a stop limit order to where you can essentially say that you will buy it up to 105 and 10 cents. So you’ll have a stop order part that triggers it, but it also submits a limit to how high you’re willing to buy that stock.

13:17
So that becomes a limit order of under 105 to 10 cents. So between 105, 105.10, that’s where you’re looking to get long at.

13:26
But if it gaps up to 112 or 105.11, then you’re not getting into it.

13:35
He then asks, could this be a blessing preventing over trading and help block out the noise of the media in real time? First of all, if you’re watching the market during the day and not sleeping through the market, you shouldn’t be watching the media anyways.

13:42
Because whether it’s CNBC, Fox Business, any of those, I would not waste my time with those people talking in the media.

13:51
I’d also be careful of, I mean, I tweet and everything and I use StockTwits, but I would be careful of how much you let it impact your thinking.

13:57
And the reason why I say that, for instance, on Twitter, you’ll get people that are hyping the stock up. It’s like, oh, this stock is going to the moon.

14:05
And especially during the GameStop frenzies where everybody’s jumping back into GameStop and Roaring Kitty’s coming out and he’s hyping everybody as well. Everybody’s getting excited and it’s easy.

14:18
I mean, trust me, they were getting me hyped. I never bought it, but they were getting me hyped to want to go buy it myself.

14:25
And so it’s easy to feel like you’re missing out. So you want to be careful when you’re reading Twitter and stuff. One, that you’re following the right people or if it’s on StockTwits as well, that you’re following the right people, that you’re not following people who are just maybe going to give you confirmation bias or make you feel good about your trades.

14:40
You want to make sure that you don’t let those people bring you down. You want to make sure that you’re following people that are giving you their opinions, but not adding a lot of fluff to it.

14:52
One thing that doesn’t have fluff is swingtradingthestockmarket.com. Yes, this is the service that goes alongside of this podcast.

15:00
And with it you’re going to get all of my stock market research each and every day. That includes my daily watchlist.

15:06
Then I do a review of that watchlist each day. This comes in video format sent to you as well as updates on all the big tech stocks.

15:14
I go through each of the big tech stocks multiple times a week for you, as well as providing stock market updates, all in video format.

15:21
And you’re going to get my master bullish and bearish watchlist each week. So you know exactly what I’m looking to trade from.

15:27
And you get that by going to swingtradeinthe-stockmarket.com. So check it out. Pretty sure that you’re going to like what it has.

15:31
So remember, you have no time for trading or it seems that way like you’re going to be sleeping during the day. There’s always workarounds.

15:42
There’s always workarounds. You just got to get creative. You got to do a little bit of research on your own. You also too, like I said in the beginning, you got to create a system based off of your lifestyle that may be more signal trading where you’re looking for certain variables that you have backtested and know that it will work when those conditions are met.

15:59
That’s one way to play it. And so that when those conditions are met, you can enter those trades based on a lifestyle that works for you and you’ve backtested those forms of entries and risk management to make sure that one, they’re profitable from a backtesting standpoint.

16:14
And two, that they adhere to your lifestyle as well. And look into the conditional orders.

16:20
You can use stop limit orders, conditional orders and that can help you with whether it be with gaps or volatile situations when you’re not able to be right there at the computer.

16:31
And if you enjoyed this episode again, check out swingtradingthestockmarket.com. But also make sure to leave me a five star review on whatever platform you’re listening to me on.

16:40
It does mean the world to me. It helps me to build the audience and get more ears listening to this podcast to help them out as well.

16:47
Plus, send me your questions ryan@shareplanner.com.

16:50
I really do enjoy hearing from you guys and I enjoy being able to give you my opinion on what troubles you.

16:56
So send me those emails ryan@shareplanner.com. Thank you and God bless.

17:02
Thanks for listening to my podcast, Swing Trading the Stock Market. I’d like to encourage you to join me in the SharePlanner Trading Block where I navigate the stock market each day with traders from around the world.

17:09
With your membership, you will get a seven day trial and access to my trading room including alerts via text, email and WhatsApp.

17:17
So go ahead, sign up by going to shareplanner.com/tradingblock.

17:24
That’s www.shareplanner.com/tradingblock and follow me on SharePlanner’s Twitter, Instagram and Facebook where I provide unique market and trading information every day.

17:35
You have any questions, please feel free to email me at ryan@shareplanner.com. All the best to you and I look forward to trading with you soon.